This site takes the opposite approach of finding positions at EU shops that will handle relocation and visas. That certainly helps get you situated, but they’ll likely expect a long term commitment. And long term, you’ll leave a ton of money on the table.
I expect that’s why the jobs listed on this site don’t reveal salaries. It would kinda take the wind out of the idea if they had to tell you that none of these jobs pay more than $50k.
Ps. Still go through! It’s really nice over here. Just make sure you get the best deal for yourself.
Many European countries have free healthcare, childcare and education on the other hand 1500$ might not cover the rent if you want something in the middle of the city of the expensive countries!
Taxes are widely different too.
Some of my friends lived in US when they where fresh graduates and moved back when they started having families because it was too expensive to get a relatively good education for their children among other things. I doubt all HackerNews kids will end up in MIT so compare the schools of where they are likely to end up. Check happiness levels too just for good measure.
I say this as an European that will move out of Europe to a country that fits me and my family more and that has made us happier (SF and NY at least is not for us, would like to see LA and Texas some day).
The devil, as always, is in the details, and everyone is different.
I wish this socialist trope would die. I have never heard of a US programming job that didn't include staff healthcare, plus some dental and eyewear.
Some US companies also include family healthcare, for some there's a fee.
A lot of planning involves “what happens if I lose my job”, or “my current workplace is hell, and between that and taking care of kids I can barely even start looking for another job, and I can’t afford to take a couple of months off because that would mean I need to go on the private insurance market for a few months which would be ridiculously expensive with my special needs kid”.
Even if you’re in an ideal scenario, with a cushy job that provides great employer insurance, it’s not close to being as good as having high quality healthcare irrespective of whether you have a good job, terrible job, or no job.
The easiest way to relocate is usually to find a company that can sponsor your visa application, so that you're legally staying in the country, and can enjoy all the public services.
Health insurance a lees of a concern, in practice. Catastrophic coverage is pretty cheap from places like IMG Global, and doctors here are happy to take payment directly for more routine things if you’re not on the national plan. And that payment is forty dollars because there’s are no insurance companies to gouge, so gouging isn’t something doctors do.
Personally, I got around the “permission to live” thing by mildly abusing schengen tourist visas for a while, then marrying an English girl. If I had to do it again, I’d go for one of the “show us you have a ton of money in the bank” visa routes. Again, that US bill rate comes in handy...
I personally migrated by finding a company that would sponsor me, usually switching companies after that is pretty effortless.
A few years back I used to have an American friend who got here on a student visa and later changed to a regular one when she started working. Granted, she wasn't in tech or anything like it, but she always had a steady long term work contract. They never wanted to give her a long-term visa for some reason. It's one of the reasons she went back to the US.
It's also really hard to go back after five to ten years where you've made 500k+ less than your peers.
Lovely place though!
Why is no one mentioning buying power as proper means to compare salaries? Also the health care stuff, rent, owning a car, retirement plans, all these things are widely different in cost and what you actually need. No one needs a car if you live in a city like Frankfurt for example. This all depends heavily on the country and region.
If you haven't thought of these things yet, you might think a bit about moving to a different country, because otherwise you'll be disappointed.
In Paris, for example, 50k is a pretty common salary for a not too senior developer. Outside of Paris, you may need some experience to be able to get that.
Source: A few friends working at tech companies with branches in France, UK and Switzerland (among others).
Average salaries for devs : - Germany: 50k EUR / year; - Switzerland: 95k CHF / year. Of course, it depends on the specific canton/city/town when you want to settle down, but you need to take to account taxes as well. In Germany, they will tax you pretty heavily, around 50%, and Swiss taxation is ~30%, more or less.
Of course those are rough estimations, but you get the point.
In terms of costs of living, it is expensive, especially if you want to live in Zurich, but for a dev earning ~100k it won't be that much of an issue. Of course, you can choose a smaller town and cut down all expenses in half :slight_smile:
Sources: SwissDevJobs.ch, GermanTechJobs.de, Payscale.com, Numbeo.com
Beautiful lakes and mountains are another nice perk there.
Its anectotal however for me and my partner we basically earn 3 and 2 times as much while cost of living is more or less only 30-50% higher than in Austria. Saying its expensive and therefore you earn more is to simple :)
Right, but my point is that Switzerland is an "anomaly" in Europe (in more than just income), so people shouldn't base their image of Europe on the situation in Switzerland. Just as we Europeans shouldn't judge the US situation on SF and maybe NY.
However, they should know that it exists, so maybe focus on moving to Switzerland in particular instead of "Europe" in general if that's what they're looking for.
> In paris those 50k wont allow you to live in a nice central apartment.
Exactly, and that's the whole problem to me. Most young engineers will usually rent a very small appartment in the beginning, get a roommate or live somewhere far out in the suburbs.
Showing salaries is not a common practice in European countries in general.
In a nutshell, Relocate.me is a one-stop platform for tech professionals who are willing to relocate for work.
Since launching Relocate.me on Hacker News over 3 years ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15922401), a lot has changed, and I’m excited to finally introduce Relocate.me 3.0 with a batch of new features and enhancements:
1) Learning center (https://relocate.me/learning-center): A treasure trove of useful information and practical advice on finding employment abroad.
2) Companies (https://relocate.me/companies): A handpicked list of tech companies hiring internationally; you can filter companies by country.
3) Improved search (https://relocate.me/search)
4) Calculators (https://relocate.me/net-pay-calculators) to estimate your after-taxes paycheck in 20+ countries
5) “Who Wants to be Relocated?” initiative (https://relocate.me/wwbr): A public list of potential tech hires promoted among international recruiters.
6) Non-developer jobs with relocation assistance. Including (but not limited to) Product Manager, Design, and Marketing roles.
7) Telegram channel (https://t.me/relocateme): A quick way to keep up to date with new positions as they’re posted, relevant news, and more.
Thank you so much for reading this far! Our team will be happy to hear your feedback.
Also I wonder what the difference in disposable income would be given something like (typical) health insurance, food prices, and housing per state/area
It helped a lot that I was in this field for almost 5 years before launching Relocate.me. So the first users came through the word of mouth and a Product Hunt campaign.
Moreover, we 'manually' invited software engineers to the platform, those who somehow expressed their interest in moving abroad (haha, this can help - https://relocateme.eu/blog/how-to-source-for-software-develo...)
Depends on the demographic you are trying to attract on the platform.
I've done a little bit of tech recruiting and I can tell you this: top engineers, no matter the level, get a lot of offer. And they won't hesitate to sort by compensation (unless of course it's SpaceX).
Really, there are two kinds of businesses out there: those that try to make money playing games with compensation and CoL adjustments and those who make money building the best software out there and scaling. The later won't have any problem giving a number: they need the talent right now to scale.
The most amusing, puerile trick goes somewhat like this:
Looking for junior full stack dev. Expert at query optimization, scaling, python, etc
Junior?! Add the word 'expert' once, and by no means is it a junior role.
I recently had a recruiter approach me with a job description such as:
"Able to mentor junior devs"
"Make key decisions" about this and that, peppered throughout the job description.
Ah. I see. A management role, under the guise of a 'junior' job title. On top of this, my linkedin shows 10+ years experience!
Why are you even calling me for a junior role to begin with? Well the answer is obvious. Keyword search, without even glancing at the linkedin profile.
Then on top of all of that, the pay is below the average junior role position locally. Wha?!
Precisely what are these people looking for? An "extremely intelligent", "driven" and "highly capable" dev, combined with "gullible" and "easy to trick"?
And even if you find such a person, what's the point of it all, when they get offered 2x the salary in 3 months?
I just don't get it.
In most cases, it's possible to find feedback from past employees on Glassdoor.
I definitely think there is a market for figuring this out and mashing it up on job pages with a browser extension.
Median base salary at google is 149, and there are plenty of offers in the 200-400 range with outliers well above that. From personal experience 140 is on the low range for 3 years experience in the major US tech markets (Seattle, Bay, Austin)
Average for senior engineers is around $200K, upper limit towards $300K.
Why not just make it open to typing in the sum, at least optionally?
It's been tricky. I get why there's not some kind of policy or program in place, since that's a pretty niche circumstance, but I don't see how it wouldn't be a good thing for whichever country I'd end up in. I don't make SV-bucks but I make more than I'd easily be able to in, say, Canada, and I'd be spending that money and paying taxes in the new country (I'm not at a level of income where I'd get double-taxed by the US, though I'd have to file there). At the same time, having to job-hunt and probably take a pay cut to find a job before we even move would suck, since I already have a job I like, that's fully remote.
Anyone got any helpful info on that situation, that I may not have come across elsewhere?
If I was going to move out of the US, I'd take a long hard look at that one.
You still have to file a tax return, you just don't pay anything.
(if you earn under 100k USD/yr)
I just want to move somewhere with a decent social system (esp. healthcare, though none of us are or expect to be sick in the near future—I'm also not trying to cheat a healthcare system in some fashion) and good schools, and use my certainly-except-in-a-handful-of-expensive-cities above-median income to pay taxes and support the local economy like anyone else. 95% of why I want to do this is so my kids can grow up somewhere with saner government and a generally saner society. None of why I want to do it is to cheat anyone. I'd just rather not also have to change jobs (and probably take a pay cut, and likely end up back in an office, too) to do it. :-/
Language is a big issue too, are they all English speaking offices?
There’s no need for tracking cookies on the home page as shown by Github’s recent blog post 
Bonus question: Why relocate in times where even FAANG heavily hires remote people to the same conditions as their local staff?
I am actively trying to relocate, and found this site useful. Existing sites (say LinkedIn) don't have a way to filter for "open for visa sponsorship" jobs. (Stack Overflow job listing is the only other site I found which allows you to look for only visa sponsorship jobs.)
They are still not "heavily" hiring remote. Many are just hiring remote while COVID is still around. They ask people to relocate to one of their offices after.
I am reminded of Society of the Spectacle, specifically thesis 165.
165 Capitalist production has unified space, breaking down the boundaries between one society and the next. This unification is at the same time an extensive and intensive process of banalization. Just as the accumulation of commodities mass-produced for the abstract space of the market shattered all regional and legal barriers and all the Medieval corporative restrictions that maintained the quality of craft production, it also undermined the autonomy and quality of places. This homogenizing power is the heavy artillery that has battered down all the walls of China.
It gives you tips but not without taking your name and email. It also has a cookie notice that doesn't let you decline.